I don't like to sound critical, and I appreciate MR refrain from this when they can, but all reasonably rational walkers, even in summer, carry warm layers including hats and gloves and survival bags / emergency shelters. I appreciate temps may be lower than expected / forecast but all walkers have to be prepared for this. I therefore can't comprehend how any responsible person could possibly be "cold", let alone hypothermic on Helvellyn in August. I don't feel that MR should be there to rescue people who can't be bothered to look after themselves. It would be much better if people who venture unprepared onto the hills were left to die.

Wishing people were left to die strikes me as somewhat extreme.

Fuck me Gilbert, that's you not wanting to sound critical, god help us when you do want to be critical!

Why? It seems it was their wish

Poople donate to MR to save people from real catastrophes on the mountains. If MR have to end up going out to some cretins who feel a bit cold in august because they are so stupid that they don't realise it will be colder on top than in the valley or because they cant be arsed to carry a few extra layers, then this reduces MR funding which is dangerous for the real casualties

Gilbert, I'm somewhat baffled on, what is clearly a completely irrational standpoint. Perhaps you could reflect on such distasteful and crass comments and perhaps realise that everyone, including you, are entitled to be forgiven for making errors of judgement. I'm sure the wonderful teams who turned out have offered the required advice. I'm also sure all involved have learned from the experience. Go in peace my friend.

All walkers and fell runners go onto the hills fully prepared. Those who get cold when they stop / are injured must be left where they are. It is not up to MR to provide a security blanket for the irresponsible who do not carry full clothing and emergency food and gear. A fundamental principle of venturing out is self reliance. Too often people are going "fast and light" with a mobile phone. They have no place in the lake district or any other hill region.

Gilbert Roberts, what a fortunate person you are, to be so well prepared for all eventualities in life. I note your good fortune has equipped your good nature with a magnanimous attitude to your fellow humans !
This group of people were very inexperienced, poorly equipped, badly advised but very nice young people. They were part of a much larger group but had become detached from them. Fortunately my partner and myself, whilst running, recognised that these people were in trouble. We shared our food and the spare kit we could afford whilst calling for Mountain Rescue.
We were passed by numerous well equipped walkers who offered no help at all (friends of yours?). Then 4 switched on young guys stopped to help. They were brilliant !
Patterdale MR arrived, dealt with the situation brilliantly. Fortunately they have the balls to help others rather than be keyboard warriors !

I think the MR teams themselves would probably tell you where to stick that opinion Gilbert - probably somewhere very painful -before you would be left to shuffle off ;-)

It's exactly the job they do volunteer for and if you aren't open to people - however nob ended - cocking up occasionally and needing help then lesrning self reliance isn't going to happen for the average couch potato!

mountain rescue also educate individuals and I bet these people will learn from their mistakes of today and be more responsible for their own safety in future. I was at the top same day, less than 2 hours before this incident, it may be August but it was very cold and windy. Our group, led by 2 very experienced National park walkers decided to head down before stopping to eat. The weather got worse, as forecast but this didn't hinder us as we were properly equipped. We all can misjudge situations and definitely don't deserve to be left there to die!
Especially if you've had an accident, which by nature was unintentional!

Pleased to see good measured responses to Gilbert's mistaken view. We all need help sometimes, with love and compassion.
Enjoy the hills. Help your fellow walkers and stay safe.

I kind of agree with original poster but probably wouldnt leave people to die but would certainly make a few sarcastic comments.

Ive come down off Blencathra and Skiddaw in summer time when weather has been dreadful, all wrapped up in warm and waterproof clothing only to pass people walking up in tea shirts !!!!. Why should volunteers have to give up their time to rescue people who are stupid ?, genuine accidents, fine, we can all have them BUT we all have brains, can check weather forcasts and can carry the right gear, if someone chooses not to then its down to them.

I know it would never happen but it may be worthwhile sticking a tax on people you have to pull off the hill, if for no other reason than to help fund the MRT. (I know it makes the persuit of hill walking less democratic, please don't jump down my throat). In the alps insurance for things like this is strongly recommended. As for leaving people to die...... are you mad?
I fully support the MRT in their grave work and hope we all donate to the charities supporting them. You never know, it might be your ankle next, or even worse, mine! Keep up the good work guys!

Re Greg's comment: I make a yearly donation to mountain rescue in Austria, in exchange for which I have mountain rescue insurance - strictly limited to the actual rescue operation, but with worldwide coverage. The minimum donation is peanuts: EU 24. You don't even have to be Austrian or live in Austria to join this scheme.

Having had hypothermia on the hill before, it isn't nice. Luckily I.was with a leader who was prepared and knew the signs. I didn't at the time. I only do now because a) I've had it and b) I've been on numerous 1st aid courses for work. Not everyone is that fortunate.
Thank goodness we have MR who help and educate people. I'm sure these kids will never make the same mistake twice.
Well done for getting them down safely and

I am the leader Patterdale MRT and I picked up the incident from the Police yesterday afternoon.

I would like to publicly thank Tony and Jen who assisted the four walkers. In addition, the four young fellas who stopped to help later.

It was a prettty grim day by the time the weather front reached the Lakes yesterday and it was forecast. However, it is not our role or will to criticise those who venture into the mountains. I trust the group will learn from this, as we all have learned from near misses in the mountains if we've been playing in them for long enough.

The group were lovely young people who were very cold and clearly very scared. I am simply pleased that good fellow mountaineers stopped to help and that they are now safe and well.

Please may I respectfully ask that we don't openly criticise others in such a harsh way. MR volunteers do it because they care. It's also good to get out of the chair and climb a mountain in bad weather, even if just to blow the cob webs off and burn off an extra pint. The bonus is that we're helping people in need.

I hope this thread will cease now.

Any of you are always welcome to visit the base and see what the Team does. Www.patterdalemrt.org.uk

I think it is very sad that these people faced this situation and they were very lucky that MR helped them out. In response to Gilbert's comments though, it can catch you out sometimes. We went up HV at the start of last year, reports were that it would be ok'ish in the morning with poorer weather later in the afternoon.
We set off early and were fully prepared for mountain weather (we had been up BN 2 days previously in a white out and -15 temps and already done HV in the week previously in poor conditions) However as we summitted the wind was horrendous and nearly took us over the edge with gusts blowing us off our feet at times. We managed to crawl/stagger off the summit but probably only made it down safely due to being very strong and fit and having mountain experience. Even so, we were cold, hungry and tired by the time we got to a safe position as it was impossible to add layers or do pretty much anything until out of the wind. Proof that sometimes no matter how well prepared and equipped you are it can catch you out.

These people may well have been well (or even moderately) equipped but sometimes things are just not as clear cut.To say they should be left there is cruel and demonstrates a simplistic and heartless view in my opinion

I hope they are well and it doesn't put them off enjoying the mountains in future.

Well done to all involved in the rescue.

How can Gilbert Roberts say that these people have no place in the lake district or any other hill region and that they should be left to die !! You are a narrow minded pillock.
The lake district is for everyone to enjoy.
Hence it being a national park.
Prepared or not, some people get caught out once in a while (even the most seasoned walker), some people generally don't realise how dangerous the mountains can be even in the summer and have no knowledge of what clothing and equipment is needed for the mountains. I'm sure they have learnt from this experience, probably feel a bit silly too.

I have climbed,walked and hiked a lot in the lakes since I was a child and i have always seen people unprepared. Going up Helvellyn in a t-shirt !!
But as we are experienced shouldn't we give them advice or warn them of the dangers. Instead of just leaving them to die !!!!

Spending time in the mountains is an amazing experience.
I hope these guy's come back more prepared and fall in love with the place like I have.
And I'd help them or anybody if they needed. Not leave them to die.
As for the MRT you guy's do an amazing job and I hope I never need to call you out. Thanks for risking your lifes to save ours.

Thanks for taking the time to give your feedback - much appreciated. I do hope you educate yourselves a bit about heading into the hills and about MR. I'll continue to carry spare layers and an emergency shelter, even in August, and even if I'm the only one among the above looking after myself. I'll also do my best not to call the absolutely amazing and much more diplomatic MR folks out unless I have a real mishap (as tragically a best friend of mine did). I'm sorry you don't agree with the importance of self-reliance, but each to their own.

I was up Helvellyn 18 months ago at Easter on my bike.
I have climbed in the Alps and Himalaya.
I was wearing decent clothes and had full goretex coverage in my bag.
The conditions were cold with cloud above the summit, conditions underfoot were icy above 2500ft
I carried on up Dollywagon to the summit, where the weather closed in, in putting my shell on, my goretex glove liner got all twisted up and couldnt get it on properly.
At this point the wind was whipping over the descent to the lower man making sorting the glove impossible.
I had to make this descent, carrying my bike on my back, with my right hand in danger of frostnip, almost getting blown off the ridge, with visibility down to 10 feet.
I gave myself a good talking to, keep going, if you stop now and wait it out you will be an MRT customer in 15 minutes. If I go in my survival bag and try to sort the glove, I still will be in a state, unable to get me and bike down.
By the time I got to the col, it was settled enough to sort my glove, and deal with just the conditions.
So...
No matter the experience or equipment, sometimes the weather catches you out.
A gear malfunction, however trivial can make the difference to getting down or needing rescue.
I got away with it that day only because of
Familiarity with the mountain
Experience

I underestimated the conditions for biking, which for an experienced mountaineer, is a little bit daft.