Why was a rescue helicopter called for in the first instance?

Immediate threat to life?

After being brought down headed home unharmed?

Helicopters are expensive - who makes the call on deployment and who pays the bill?

Read the article.

A helicopter was requested by Keswick MRT "because of the condition of the most vunerable casualty." So yes, there was potentially an immediate threat to life.

It was a Coastguard helicopter therefore the British taxpayer will pay the bill.

.

My understanding is that the crews need to log a certain number of flying hours each month, whether call-outs or training, so the extra cost of a call-out is minimal.

Never mind the beefing: due praise to the skills, abilities and success of both the crew and Keswick MRT.

Well done, guys.

Tim - you read the article - I did and that is why I am asking the pertinent questions.

Do you understand the term crag fast?

Graham - not worth replying!

I think if anyone is crag fast in such a precarious environment such as sharp edge then any means necessary should be taken to extract them safely without injury / loss of life , regardless of the cost

We witnessed this first hand. Completely unnecessary. 15 mountain rescue men and a helicopter for two nonchalant boys in trainers just sat there, with no injuries, claiming to be fine when approached by a few people. They were already 90% of the way up the ridge and could easily have been assisted the rest of the way by the ten or so people that passed them, including ourselves. There was no immediate threat to life as far as we could see. It was a matter of pride as they said they had done it last week absolutely fine and just wanted to wait a minute to have a rest.

Kudos to Keswick Mountain Rescue Team for their hard efforts and controlling that helicopter on those high winds. We were on pins watching.

Lars, your pertinent questions aren't pertinent in that they are already answered in the article. As a member of one of the busiest mountain rescue teams in the UK, yes, I do understand the term crag fast.

Tim - read Kat's comments - and I too was a member of a busy MR team based in Scotland.

I read the article and it did not compute so I asked the questions.

And Kat's observations answered my questions/suspicions and she was there!

So vulnerable and crag fast?

The MCA S92 helicopter is a different beast to the previous incumbent - designed predominately for rescue at sea.

I have witnessed the requesting of this resource in the Lakes and it was obvious that the downdraft was going to create issues.

My main concern is the deployment of valuable resources when in reality they may not have been required - and then a true emergency arises and ....................

Lars, I certainly accept your comment about the chopper being required elsewhere, but for the record my comment about costs was based on a conversation with someone who had served with 22 SQN at Valley, which I assumed to be a reliable source.

Graham - agreed, the piltos have to log x amount of flying hours monthly so might as well try to do something useful as fly over the sea doing nothing.

With all due respect Lars, you weren't there in this instance. Furthermore, in terms of Kat's observations (with all due respect to her), we do not know her level of experience and therefore ability to evaluate risk.

As an ex-member of a busy Scottish MRT, I assume you will have first hand experience of how events can become distorted by both bystander and media reports. I am therefore also surprised you need to ask 'who makes the call on deployment and who pays the bill?'

The red jackets in this photo show that the incident site is certainly in a pretty exposed position, not on the main route up Sharp Edge: https://www.facebook.com/980955948589111/photos/pb.980955948589111.-2207520000.1494793666./1665144736836892/?type=3&theater

I worked extensively with the Sea King and now work regularly with the S92. I am well aware of the difference in downdraft.

My point is that if Keswick MRT requested a helicopter, you can be pretty much certain it was justified. Nigel's comment above is bang on the money. With very limited knowledge of the event, raising your 'concerns' through online conjecture achieves nothing.

Not that it makes much difference but that photo was taken nowhere near the lads, they were on the main route were many passed them. So the off route part is bull. They were about three quarters of the way up sharp edge on the final face climb. It was slippery and scary I will give the boys that and they were vulnerable indeed with what they were wearing and their footwear. It was foolish but they're safe and won't do it the same again without making sure they're safe :-)

No worries Kat. I was referring to the red jackets in the photo, not the site where it was taken from. They look left of the main route up the final slab. Were people passing right next to them?

It was Lars questioning the judgement of the MRT at the scene that irked me, not your comments. As is usual for Sharp Edge, it sounds like a pretty avoidable incident.

Regarding 22 SQN at Valley and the other SAR RAF Flights - I am aware that this was true at the time - now an different contract and operation.

Bristow's have to supply aircrews and airframes to satisfy a paid contract, so I admit that familiarisation is important but these I believe is built into the contract.

I am well aware who call the shots regarding deployment/costs and wished to make the point to the wider public regarding this.

The media reporting was by a team spokesman so this should be free of distortion?

I am aware that casualties may give spurious info and that is why gathering accurate info should be part of the rescue plan.

I believe that often the casualties narrative is taken verbatim and then we have the request for costly and valuable resources - that may not be required?

Where you there Tim?

Your reply is academic - if you were there you could confirm/deny the circumstances - if not why do you disregard my comments regarding the call-out.

Signing off.

Tim/Lars, the photo in this article isn't even them, which proves my point all the more about media. That's just two random men on a good day lol

They were smack bang in the middle of the final face climb, right on the main route, just to the right of the first narrow rock gulley you have to climb up. I have a pic but can't post here.

Yes, about 9 people passed them including myself. The boys are safe and well and I've since communicated with them. They're very sweet and realised their errors and that any extra help would have been wise.

You live you learn :-)

Lad on the left with hood up is one of them. This is just after we spoke.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5xlJHH0AWfgYkJGSkppZlRYQUk

Kat - interesting picture. They just sat there waiting to be rescued?

I'm sure their family were glad they made the decision to "just sat there waiting to be rescued " rather than braying onwards and upwards marking a mistake which could have led to disastrous consequences. It's about making the right decision even if it was the wrong one that's got you in that predicament in the first place , for me they done the right thing and am sure they'll learn from the experience , If anyone close to me was in a similar position I know what I'd rather they did to get home safe

Nigel did you look at the photo Kat gave the link to.

Any of those in the photo could have helped them up and some offered to do so.

A kick in the back side might have helped - they were after all fit young men.

I did look at the picture , and regardless of how fit and young they are if they got it in thier head that they were in danger to the point if I go further I'm going to fall and die then I'm not surprised they stayed put.

How precious we have become on the hill.

Less than a foot away a man and woman happily climb up past them.

I wonder what a 19 year Battle of Britain pilot might have done.

Slippy trainers - take them off and use socks for grip.

I bet a 19 year old Battle of Britain pilot would have made the correct decision to stay alive , pointless statement absolutely no relevance whatsoever

'Less than a foot away a man and woman happily climbed up past them.'

I suspect you are overly dramatising the situation.

And comparing it to the Battle of Britain isn't ????? Have a word with yourself

Just trying to create some balance.

Oh, another bit of 'no relevance' iformation, Jim Bell did parts of the first ascent of The Long Climb on Ben Nevis in his socks.

And Ray McHaffie climbed Little Chamonix in boxing gloves and roller skates, but I'm b*ggered if I'm trying that!

Also a craze for barefoot hiking in the US back in the Flower Power days.

The boys chose to stay put, I respect that decision.

My issue was that they did not admit that they were in trouble or that they had already called Mountain Rescue. We could have stayed with them, gave them fleeces, gave them drinks and food, kept them warm, we could have given one of them first aid as we are trained and one of them did have a bad knee. They chose to remain silent and accept no help at all.

Again, they realised the error of this and have apologised (even though it wasn't necessary to me) and have learned from it.

All is well :)