It would be interesting to know more about the false alarms. Were these caused by people misusing the system when they could have self rescued or by accidental activations when in a rucksack which I was concerned about when I bought one so keep it in a small Tupperware tube.

I'm getting one because I hike alone most of the time. I have recently watched all six seasons of 'I shouldn't be alive', and almost every story bar none is about someone being out of reach of help.

Even more work for Rescue Teams!

Easier to call for help rather than learn the essential skills of mountain travel.

A 'competent' lone walker will rarely, if ever, have need for one.

Prior to the last couple of decades, mountaineers had no electronic means of communication and they appear to have managed.

In any times past there used to be fewer folk out in the hills, mountains and wilds and we read tales of folk crawling miles after injuries. I had an associate who broke a leg bone and crawled a few miles in the Alps wearing out his trousers, then his knees. How much easier for him had he had such a device. These days we hear a lot about ill prepared folk.

When I went out and about (on my own) in my teens I carried enough gear to stop overnight and be comfortable. This included a down sleeping bag in the winter. I often tested my system and bit by bit over the years I improved it with lighter stuff that I either made or saved up for (money is an issue if you are not handy with a sewing machine or soldering and tape sealing) until I had a rucksack that would be a "preppers" dream.

I once came across an incident of a young lass being cared for by an expert in outdoor survival . He had no idea how to use a triangular bandage (but knew how to cook worms), so I showed him how to use a nappy pin to fasten the broken limb to the middle of her jacket . I could imagine the same chap with a PLB saying, "I need to read the instructions".

Accidents happen to even the most experienced amongst us. In a lone distress situation I would personally advocate the use of a PLB, GPS encoded ideally. The one of the best inventions aiding in SAR of all time.

In reply to the gentleman above, speaking as a SAR professional, I think you'll find that a fixed location (within accepted errors) casevac is better than a large scale search . . . Perhaps significantly less work for rescue teams

Of course the gentleman above is describing situations that have already gone wrong.

What I'm suggesting, as a way to relieve the strain on Rescue Teams, is the need for greater competence by those using the hills, so that PLBs are not required.

PS - I have also done time with a team and understand search difficulties. We usually described ourselves as mountaineers.

A passive device such as a Spot tracker has a lot of benefits for a walker than a PLB:-

1. The ability to send "OK" messages
2. The ability to send an intermediate (non-life threatening situation) message such as you requiring an unplanned pickup at a location.
3. The ability for family/friends to track your route and see where you are real time (so they can say meet you if needed).
4. You need to be less worried about varying your route or leaving route details (route card).
5. A tracker will give a last known position in the event of a catastrophic event or illness.
6. For a lone walker (particularly elderly) then considering the effect of losing you on your family - not just emotionally but financially and practically. Without a body managing financial aspects of a missing person present huge problems. Since this type of event is less likely to be indicated by a PLB then the tracker is the obvious way to go.
7. As a member of a rescue team I would prefer that lone walkers did carry trackers particularly in remote areas in winter. The level of false callouts is relatively low. (I do actually leave mine on normally when on the hill).

The main downside of a tracker is the cost. Spot trackers are commonly used for DofE tracking and have huge benefits for the assessors and instructors. They do generate a level of false callouts, but to date this has not been unmanageable.

They are a great idea and an asset to the competent walker, however, they should not be used as a means for inexperienced walkers. The same is true for many who venture up into the hills with a GPS and no map or compass skills. I always walk alone, but I always ensure a family member has a full detailed route with all possible hazards highlighted.

All that said, even experienced walkers can get into difficulty, for example. A sprained ankle could lead to a situation where exposure is a real danger.

Yes, they have there place, as long as used responsibly.

Regarding The Duke of Edinburgh's Award, expedition groups do not need mobile phones or tracking devices - what a group does need, is a competent Supervisor, not a belief in electronic tagging.

As to PLBs, very occasionally a lone, competent mountaineer may find a use for such a device, but more than likely their experience will have led them to have other controls in place in the event of problems.

However, if we are prepared to accept that ‘less than competent’ is becoming the norm, then by all means encourage everyone going to the hill to carry one.

As long as a button can be pressed does it really matter if common sense and good navigation skills are present?

All shall be tagged.

Im an often solo walker and it frustrates me the amount of nonsense I hear about being better prepared etc. Accidents happen to even elite mountaineers.
It matters little how many mountain leader badges you have if you slip and knock yourself out.
Just one question for all the nay sayers..
How many of our hillwalking community are there currently missing in Scotland.?

Mmmh....not sure about these devices in UK hills.
If they are used by solo walkers surely a big issue is the need to manually activate the unit, which may be tricky if you suddenly become unconscious after a fall or maybe cardiovascular event, when they are no better than a whistle.
Remote activation by (lack of) motion sensor, is availible as used by emergency services in automatic distress signal units. These of course often need the occasional shake to stop them going into pre alarm, which would be a real problem when out on the hills.
Will stick to whistle, mini-flares, bivibag, mobile, and 'home contact'. The managed risk of walking alone adds to the experience after all.
We seemed to manage ok before all these gizmos were invented.

Forgot to mention the trackers.....I don't want my every move tracked when out on the hill. Surely the spirit of the hills is to get away from the track as it were.

Tracking for DofE provides an added level of support for participants. Sure they should have the skills to carry out the challenge themselves, but if anything should go wrong then the backup is there. The penalty they pay in using this backup is that they do not complete the challenge (and gain the award).

On a practical side from a rescue perspective it is a hell of a lot easier to deploy a small hill party to a known position to escort a part off than it is to deploy a full blown search. The is particularly true during weekday working hours. Teams are volunteers and some are simply not allowed away by their employers or have a limit as to how often they can do this.

For the solo walker the tracking info can be made private to chosen recipients (for Spot this is default) unless the distress button is pressed. In reality the tracker may really just primarily be a body recovery device - but it certainly makes the process easier for the rescuers and family.

I've just bought a Spot Gen 3 Tracker and hadn't realised that there was a Beacon Registry. However, from what I can see the registry is for devices that transmit on 406 MHz, and I am pretty sure the Spot uses a different frequency. Do any Spot owners out there know what the situation is, thanks in advance.

We are now clearly putting the Safety Cart before the Mountaineering Horse.

For nearly 50 years The Duke of Edinburgh’s Award expedition groups have explored our hills safely without electronic equipment and with very few serious problems. As I noted in an earlier post the key to a successful and ‘adventurous expedition’ is a competent Supervisor.

“The technological imperative of industrial man has always been that if it can be done it should be done.”

One view (below) of Mountaineering that I find interesting comes from Walter Bonatti - who Doug Scott described as, “Perhaps the finest Alpinist there has ever been.”

“The ‘unknown’ is an invaluable component of adventure. Facing it puts you indirect contention with your own doubts and worries. It eats away at your inner being. Confronted by the unknown, difficulties expand and your limits contract.

"But it takes very little to reduce or even abolish the unknown – a tiny radio transmitter or some similar device carried during a climb may seem a small thing, but metaphorically it is like playing poker with nothing but aces in your hand.

"In the past we could speak of ‘conquest’ and of ‘exploration’ but nowadays this can only make us smile a little, given the great all-seeing eye of technology, which solves all problems.”

Walter Bonatti

Oh joy another gadget that isn't needed! Where's my credit card.............

Ian512, 50 years ago people didn't sue the a$$ off those people running things like D of E.
But anyway, I tell you what.. Bob sticks to having no technology and Fred has a phone, a gps, beacon etc.
They both go walk (separately) the same area - lets say Knoydart.
They both have a slip and fall into a gully, they both break their legs.
No signal on Freds phone but his beacon sees him rescued and in Raigmore in under 24 hours...
Are you sure you'd want to be Bob?
By the way - do you still wear hobnailed boots? -they're traditional after all...

I do try in my posts not to make things personal.

If we introduce new ‘safety’ measures (tracking devices) to an activity (DofE), which was already fundamentally safe, what often happens is described in the maxim ‘Safety Benefits Become Performance Benefits’.

In the case of The Duke of Edinburgh’s Award someone may decide; that fewer staff are needed to supervise a group, maybe the supervising staff can be farther away from the group or perhaps we can now supervise more groups with the same staff.

On the face of it this sounds reasonable, but and as they say, it’s a big but, the individuals in the group know they are or can be tracked, so as Bonatti suggested, the adventure element is reduced making the experience less valuable than it might have been. With no real increase in safety (it was as safe before through good supervision) a valuable element of the expedition experience has been lost.

(How would GPS change Orienteering?)

For the Mountaineer the maxim also applies. I may know that my navigation could be better; therefore I shouldn’t head off on to that snow covered misty plateau. However, if I am certain to be rescued, because I am carrying one or two items of electronic equipment, I may be tempted into an area which is beyond my current level of navigation skill or experience.

There is more to Mountaineering than just safety.

You've used a lot of words there and said nothing new.
As I said would you rather be a Fred or a Bob?
Would your family prefer you to be a Fred or a Bob?

It is a horrifying fact that experienced walkers sometimes get in to trouble. How many families are out there right now wishing they knew where their loved ones are?

Believe me accidents can happen any place, any time to anyone. I have covered hundreds of wild miles in the UK and yet managed to smash my arm to pieces in a fall on Nine Barrows in Dorset. Had I knocked myself out it could have been hours before I was found. It wasn't through lack of care, experience, ability.. it was a lack of luck. I actually count myself lucky. Being only a mile from a road and able to flag down a white van man who kindly took me to hospital.
I shudder to think if that had happened whilst I'd been on Suilven or Tiorga Mor.

Yes, there is more to mountaineering than safety but you'd still surely want to do everything you could to minimise the liklihood of becoming another MRT statistic. Furthermore should the unthinkable happen you would surely want the search to be swiftly concluded if not for yourself then for your family.

Ah, very few people are in the fortunate position to say 'something new' but repetition is often valuable.

I want you to know that “safety is my first priority”, so you may continue reading with reassurance!

What the Ian guy is probably getting at is that even with all the new gear and fancy electronics the load on Volunteer Recue Teams is increasing. Sure more folks on the hills, but they have all that new gear! Still the call out rate continues to increase.

Stigofthenest if you are so concerned about the risks and worry for your family then there is a simple answer, don't go out on the hills. It isn't obligatory after all, maybe stay at home and play football or something else less demanding.

Chicmac I'm fine, thanks for the advice but I'm confident with my navigation and know my limitations. So I will carry on regardless.
I'm not on a one person crusade to sanitise the hills -far from it. But I am open to using tech to compliment the experience. Whether that be a gps, a digital camera or whatever.
What does disappoint me is the mindset that by having a loc beacon would somehow detract from the wilderness experience.
Two fellows are missing in the Mammores and have been since late Spring 2015. Its so sad that these guys are still out there somewhere.
The increase of folks in the hills has as much to do with the popularity of the likes of A.W. and Trail magazine as the advent of hill technology. But it is also telling that of all the call outs MRT have this year I bet you or I could predict where over 90% of the incidents will occur.
It's not a case of the inexperienced getting lost on Cul Mor, AnTeallach, Wild boar fell or Drygarn Fawr.

Enjoying the great outdoors is a mental experience as much as a physical one. As a rock climber I will happily solo climbs that are well within my skill level, but if I don safety gear I will attempt climbs that I would never solo. I am one of those climbers who does not fully trust gear (falling off and finding that gear works erodes that mistrust, but I have rarely fallen, so still have that mental doubt), so climbing at or beyond my skill level (with good safety gear, properly used) still scares me. But the satisfaction of conquering the challenge is supreme.

I would not put a PLB in the category of safety gear that would cause one to push on beyond one's skill level (When venturing outdoors we do not do so knowing that we will succumb to a rescue situation no matter what). Such devices have been used by sailors for years and in my sailing days they were just part of the kit to help rescue (after cataclysmic disaster) in a wilderness far bigger than any mountain range.

Food for thought.

Mike, I pick up on your sailing experience, which I also have and agree with your comments.

With sailing there does seem to be more in the way of training associated with it, rather than when taking to the hill. That training usually gives an individual a clear idea of their level of skill in sailing the boat, the equipment required to navigate it and a clear understanding of the correct use of safety equipment such as radio and EPIRB.

Fewer people are willing to jump in a boat and head off to the Western Isles with limited experience than those who are happy to launch themselves up a mountain with the same level of experience.

I think that on the hill a PLB is more likely to be used as a 'Performance Benefit', rather than at sea where it is still considered a 'Safety Benefit'.

My father was still climbing Monroes into his late 80's and I occasionally had to do the 800 mile round trip from home to Scotland to home to pick him and his campervan up when I got a call "from my dad".

He used a mountain bike to do the longer trails, but one day after achieving his goal he was cycling back to base and fell at a puddle of peat. He bashed his nose, but at 84 picked himself up and carried on back to his van. A day or two later he went for a new bottle of Calor propane. He was already age related deaf and having bashed his nose was unable to smell. He tightened the propane as much as one could expect of an 80+ year old (clearly not enough and could not smell the leak or heart the leaking gas). He kept a diary and at this moment put, "about to boil the kettle for a cup of tea"

The next I heard was a phone call from my dad, not the rescue services. As he lit the stove the leaking propane had ignited and blew the van to bits. Fortunately being in the middle of the explosion meant he was not thrown against anything, but just suffered flash burns. He was not knocked unconscious and had the wherewithal to get his fire extinguisher to put out the flaming plastic bags. These were everywhere.

Did he need a PLB. No. He got on and did what was right, borne of experience and contacted me after he was comfortable. Had he been killed I would have thought at 80+ years what a great life and a great way to leave. He thought so too. he just loved the challenge and wanted to die doing just that. Sadly he became frail after being knocked down by an errant motorist impatient to get out of a supermarket car park. PLB in a super market car park anyone?

We have a ninety year old as a neighbour who still cleans his gutters and his driving skill would put a much younger person to shame.

That generation was special!

Thanks for the contribution. I am now looking after an elderly relative who has a habit of wondering in an urban area and have fitted his clothing with pet or child GPS devices that will work for a week or four between battery charges. I have set up a geo fence that warns me if he enters the wilds (more than 100 metres from his home). He has been informed of the devices and when compos mentis agreed to them (recorded). He has an emergency switch on a lanyard around his neck which he carries, but even after falls fails to activate to hear the advice given that I pay for. This is a PLB device that is so common in sheltered housing and I would guess for everyone used by the open country types is maybe 1,000,000 to one. Do they work? Yes, if used as per instructions. Do they work in practice? No, if they are not used as per instructions. Do they temp those with them to do more than what they know they can do, No. Their (the users) physical ability is the limiting factor.

More food for thought.

Just for interest - that earlier mention of EPIRBs wakened a memory.

In 1996 a company was advertising Marine EPIRBs for use on the hill. However, the Radio Communications Agency of the day quickly made it clear that their use, in that situation, would be illegal.

I'm not suggesting that using the PLB described above would be illegal.

A great debate so far and for me the general straw poll from this very, very small sample is that a PLB (that does not breach data protection or privacy laws) is a good thing. We know that within a home they are fantastically useful (Independant living). We know that smartphone users have similar capabilities that show buddy location and heart rate etc (when set up in such a way) and are so popular with fitness enthusiasts.

The key difference is that most of those are cell phone based in terms of outputting signals.

As a speleologist I would find the use of one rather limited, but for MOLE technology which currently is person extensive.

So I think the key issues (with current PLB devices) are three fold .

1. Would a (current generation) PLB increase the real risk of someone having an accident?

2. Would widespread (current generation) PLB use increase the call out rate for RS?

3. Training

I went for a short walk up Cautley Spout and fell ill less than a mile from the main road. Fortunately one of my two phones had a signal so I was able to call for help. My eventual recovery involved the mountain rescue team and an air ambulance.

Without a phone signal I probably would not have been found until the next day.

Since then I have purchased the PLB pictured above and registered it with the MCA. The registration form is included in the box and one of the questions they ask is about maritime or overland usage.

The PLB now has a permanent home in my rucksack.

* There is no way the PLB above can be accidentally activated.
* The SPOT devices cannot be relied upon in emergencies. They use commercial satellite SMS to communicate and are not guaranteed to get through, even in perfect conditions.