From Michael Jones Ex Britich Speleologica Association
Most work in Derbyshire. Overnight trips in Peak Cavern
Giant Hole and Nettle Pot etc.

Lost one boy who went down on an un controled group
He is stll in Peak Cavern.

Help Start Cave Rescue in Castleton. Put a small
invetment into it.

Last trip underground was in Mexico...Big!
Fell off pyramid when girls would not let me use the
sixed line. No helmet cracked scull etc.
Great to go underground when all is known about
safty
Mike

well written criticism caving is exciting and fun, Bear and ITV would do well to point people in the direction of the many caving clubs that abound encouraging people to learn the basics from experienced cavers.

I agree I said to myself "no helmet on mountain bike" and your representing the scouts!!!

Unfortunately, the media like him, even though the majority of genuine 'outdoors people', and many others realise he is very irresponsible and has poor regard for his true responsibilities.

Even the Scout Association must realise that, but their PR department will be overjoyed at how he has changed the image of Scouting.

There is little we can do, but to admire his outrageous audacity.

Joe Faulkner

On another recent program Grills was shown free climbing, with no helmet or safely gear. The guy is sending out totally the wrong message. Hiding behind a 'don't try this at home kids' type disclaimer is ridiculous, irresponsible & bang out of order.

I agree with man of the comments voiced - we run a watersports business and ensure we are authentic, coach and brief people. I also do adventures all over the world unsupported in kayaks, canoes, on bikes and on foot. The reality of my world is not wearing a helmet would be a sad end to my adventures, paddling without knowing the conditions or having the right kit would mean rescue or worse - i wish that the TV commissioners would feature some of the real people doing plenty of exciting and safe stuff across the range of outdoor activities in the UK.
He is more of a TV presenter than a professional outdoorsman! And as so many say to represent Scouts should be a case of authentic and servant leadership for the benefit of so many young people waiting to be inspired.

As an outdoor instructor, mountain leader, paddlesports coach, keen mountaineer, fell runner, caver and mountain biker, this guy makes me cringe something rotten. He's a sad attention seeker, and his popularity is indicative of the fact that young people need to grow up with the outdoors and not be taken in by gimmicky nonsense like this! Rant over.

Unbearable Grylls?

I don't really watch the programme so pretty much unbiased.

But I'm pretty sure it's a survival programme, and if he was to wear all the correct PPE and equipment it would surely take the survival element out of it and turn it into a tame Sunday afternoon style out door persuits programme.... And that would not have many viewings I imagine with regards to the wider ordience.

I'm sure every professional in their respectful fields has something to say each time he does something related to their profession.

Maybe just don't watch the programme if you don't like it

Its disgraceful unprofessional conduct by him and his so called safety crew, kids look up to him in the scout movement.... those in authority should be strip him of his scout title. Long Churn can be very dangerous and I have been down it myself (with a cave club) and where you exit the cave the water continues to the right for a good few meters then plunges off an underground cliff/waterfall, if they had lost their footing and been swept down the waterfall they would have been coming out in body bags! courtesy of a cave rescue team... I don't think Bear and his crew realised the extreme danger they put themselves in... at least they had sense to fix a rope to exit the cave, but come-on no dry suit or wet suit, no helmet with torch.........

I'm also a mountainbiker and to ride with no helmet shows a disregard for common sense and safety.

Hmmmm I run an outdoor sports course at a college in Buxton and we head up to the dales for caving sessions with our students. Its simple I would be sacked if I followed his example and in court if something serious happened.
I know the guy has advisors that rig everything for him and tell him what he can and cannot do, eat etc etc
I always tell my students its good telly and nothing else!

I personally think Bear grylls should be removed as Chief Scout.
He thinks he is something that is not. He has just shown that he disreguards safety, for other people.
And that is not the good for young people in scouting or any young people.
Would you let your child, friend or relative just take part in an activity, without safety gear, safety hat, dry suit etc ?. I seriously wouldnt allow it.
Its about time people realised just how much an idiot he really is. And what a bad name he is giving the our militry, seeing he claims to be ex SAS.

I totally agree about Bear sending out the wrong message and doing stupid things with no apparent regard for saftey. In fact I had already written about this on my website,
http://www.cavesofmalaysia.com/newspage12.htm

It seems as though commercialisation, which includes this programme, of these activities is actually 'designed' to keep Rescue Teams in work.

I personally can see how it makes better telly and suits the survival aspect of the program not to use all the proper safety kit as its supposed to be about Bear working with what he has in that situation. However the real issue for me, especially as Chief scout is his programs present all outdoor adventure activities as an extreme 'don't try this at home' endevour. Surely as Chief scout he should be trying to make these sports as accessible as possible to everyone, yet the only result I can see is parents start pulling their children off their outdoor education trips in school as they're worried about caving, climbing etc after watching Bear struggle though them, only just surviving. Therefore these great alternatives to staying at home in front of the telly remain as adventures preserved for only the professionals or the stupid.
Bear -if that is his real name- should choose either Chief Scout or sensationalist TV danger man because they utterly conflict in their results and either one damages the other.

Sadly its utterly predictable that Bear will end up with a nasty head injury or worse unless he starts applying a lot more common sense in the outdoors.

Literaly on his head be it, but he should not be given any more TV airtime as a representative of an outdoor youth organisation that promotes a disciplined common sense approach to outdoor activity. Scout movement should be shot of him, he is not fit to lead a walk in the local park.

I must admit watching the programme I was horrified to watch him jump into the water with just a hand held torch and start wading his way through murky water into a cave.
It gave the impression that its all you need to do.

I've been caving in the past and I must say its not for me. However, the key lesson is safety first, correct gear including helmets and ropes as well as a proper suit. I'll bet within the next 12 months there is someone being pulled out of that system because they thought it looked easy on the telly.

It was also idiotic to do a back flip into Stainforth Foss, considering the river was in spate. People have drowned there in the past.

I think it's great that people should learn more about the great days out and adventure they can have right here in the UK. It is utterly stupid not to show how these activities can be undertaken safely.

By the way. Who says he was in the SAS apart from him?

I read that it was the SAS Reserves .

I couldn't agree more, caving and potholing in the Dales is deadly if inexperienced and the CRO do a fantastic job in often horrible conditions to save lives of people that don't have even the basic knowledge of the environment they have walked or clambered into, even large caves like Gaping Gill and Alum pot can be deadly but Sleets gill and Mossdale have claimed numerous. He may have been a special forces soldier but now he's all about heroics, a bad roll model for young people!

Got to agree with the majority here but if we are going to say that Mr Grylls is culpable in encouraging dangerous practice the lets say goodbye too to Trail magazine, T.G.O., Dive magazine, Get High, Performance Bikes et al as all these encourage the ill prepared and misinformed to undertake dangerous activities that they are often not trained, experienced enough or prepared for.

I am an adrenline junkie who walks scrambles and climbs, dives both in open and closed water environments including cave diving and rides fast sportsbikes as quickly as I can get away with and yet I consider myself to be a sensible person devoid of a death wish.

Some of the criticism is well founded but some is bordering on hysteria.

Stay safe out there folks.

As a long term Scout Leader and caver I am definitely of the opinion we should be shot of Bear Grylls as Chief Scout. I have been lucky enough to meet a couple of past Chiefs but have no wish to meet this prat.
I have caved with scouts for some 25 years plus and as a non-competitive team sport it is absolutely brilliant for young people. It has the right mix of brain and muscle and is equal for boys and girls. To give the impression that you can go caving with virtually no kit just on the spur of the moment is plain stupidity.
Perhaps it would be an idea if the proper professionals in the "outdoor adventurous activities industry"refused to be involved with him - but there again money is money and business is business.

I'm surprised by the insults and bitterness on here and the FB page. It reveals not just a concern for safety but the state of what's inside some people's hearts! Thank you for the more balanced comments on here. I completely understand and highly respect the necessity for safety but let's do so properly without resorting to 'offence' and even personal abuse.

Was it unwise at times? Yes. Is there a responsibility to act properly? Absolutely. But my feeling is that the programmes were filmed to a short, tight timeline and I think it's this 'get a programme at any cost' that needs to be considered by ITV and its advisors, rather than insulting a presenter.

We must balance safety and risk well. We must also balance the good that people do and the numbers they encourage into the outdoors, with any perceived harm they do or may do. I think we people like Bear Grylls and we need people like Ray Mears.

there was not a total disregard for health and safety at least the lady geologist held is hand to make sure he did not trip up.

I despair at some of these these comments. It is survival. You all life a life of caution and looking forward to only procedure and just incase's - life isn't about just in cases - life it to be lived and learned... not living on the end of caution. I swear to you most of humanity have forgotten what it means to be alive.

You're not going to accidentally stumble into a cave-rescue situation with all the relevant gear are you?

If it was up to you clipboard bureaucrats no-one would dare do anything. There's only one way to learn. I put it to you it's because of these procedures and guidelines which actually create the problems in the first place. You're all devoid of a little bit of COURAGE.

No wonder our youth are so messed up these days - you obviously can't see that you're being conditioned to have to ask permission to live.

whingers!!!

Bloody annoyed- think you missed the point, which is you can feel the thrill of the outdoors without putting your life in NEEDLESS risk. I personally don’t think you need to come close to killing yourself to feel alive. Perhaps you should try Russian Roulette?

The main point is this type of program gives out poor and inaccurate information about accessing and enjoying our wild spaces and encourages fools to rush in.

Please also remember, his seemingly off the cuff antics are actually very stage managed. Its not the raw thrill seeking you think it is, which is always worth remembering.

As for survival, as a “Bushcrafter” who has studied survival, he seems to have very little clue as to what to do and makes fundamental mistakes in the few programs I have seen. He is more about military escape and evasion, in which you calculate risks based on been capture by a hostile enemy, (which I think would have made his programs more TV audience interesting, but my guess is he would have shown he has poor skills here too).

The fact he has commercial clothing and equipment range should have precluded him from been the head Scout as this is a clear and very strong conflict of interests.

The shame is he is an accomplished outdoorsman, but the way he is portrayed and the things he chooses to do on TV are apparently largely out of his skill sets.

We need more television about accessing our wild and remote places, but TV largely fails to get it right, going for sensationalist rubbish and failing to get a good balance between good viewing and education. Ray largely got it right when working with the BBC, and this was well watched and loved, (as was Julia Bradbury’s Wainwright series). It proves it can be done.

First we had the caving with no helmet and then this week we have the snow climbing with no helmet, and hacking into a cornice to boot. Pleased to see all the others being filmed had more sense. Sends out a bad example to all others participating in the great outdoors.

Read 'Chomp' a funny little novel featuring the character of a high profile TV outdoor expert called Derek Beaver... I immediately pictured Grylls in my head as I read about staged 'starvation', battles with wildlife and imaginary close shaves with death...absolute idiots Beaver and Bear...show some respect and stop stomping through beautiful places with your entitled, tame it, nail it, I'm a winner attitude. Never once seen the tool show any affinity to the environment he's in or its occupants.

Grylls out...Ray Mears for Cheif Scout

You can still have survival/bush craft/outdoor programmes and show a proper regard for safety (see Beyond Boundaries BBC2). That's not a disclaimer 'don't try it at home' because everybody will!! -part of survival and bush craft is not to take risks because you don't want to make your situation worse---but in telly terms its a deeper issue than that- This whole genre of programming has got out of hand and whether it's Bear versus himself or Bear celebrities or Bear lets torture the hell out of people its just dumbs people down and makes a mockery of the outdoors we love and respect. What happened to 'plan to succeed' - what happened to the promotion of the elemental connection that gives people a renewed sense of self, cures anxiety and alleviates paranoia and inspires our younger generation - that's seems to be boring to our television masters who are equally obsessed with the SAS. I agree with all the comments above and I would seek to get a better standard of programme on the television that promotes the outdoor environment in a more thoughtful and positive way and gets people who would benefit involved---while we are all whinging we do all have, and that's me included, a duty to try and change what we don't like---I am on it!!! wish me luck ---ken x PS anybody who goes near a cave or pot needs to think hard there have been so many unnecessary deaths due to poor safety and rivers of course - -moving water scares the pants off
me!

Yes Long Churn is quite famous for this. In DRY conditions it is a relatively safe cave suitable for novice cavers. I have done it several times. In flood conditions it is a DEATHTRAP. Cave rescue are right to criticize what he has done as they have spend quite some time warning people such as outdoor activity people of the risks of this straight forward cave. As a general rule the first thing and caver should do before making a decent is to check the weather conditions are suitable for the cave. This is where the use of guide books and experience advice come in. If you come a cropper on a mountain or hillside they can send a Helicopter. Underground its a different story. I always check the weather before any descent as I prefer my caves, particularly wet ones to have sufficient room left in them for some air to go along with the water as I am fussy that way !!!

Bloody annoyed – Part of the thrill of going caving is the sense of adventure that comes from going into such dangerous places seeing stuff that few people have seen and living to tell the tale. The only rules are the rules of Nature and the laws of physics. You can't break then but they can break you. You need the NASA type of courage to go underground. The world above does not exist it is so far away. Its the nearest thing to going into space that you can find on the surface of the earth. Its hard physical demanding and merciless and I have seen such things. If you are 5 hours into a trip then you are at least 10 hours away from any possible help. You do most defiantly not want a GUNGHO approach. Even well equipped teams do sometimes get into trouble. Not having the right gear is ill advised. Not having the right attitude will get you in the end.

In response to the 'it's for survival' comment, why would you choose to go down a FLOODING CAVE if you wanted to survive?!

I've done a fair bit of caving with clubs and work, through long churn and into dollytubs and hundreds of different cave systems in the UK.

The thing that gets me is lack of basic kit like helmet and head torch. You can crawl around in tough, cheap waterproofs and wellies with an experienced guide with kit if it's your first time underground.

To Dave...would you applaud a rally driving program aimed at kids or Top Gear stig not wearing a seat belt? Or a documentary on soldiers in combat, wearing flip flops on?

Maybe Bear could show us skydiving without a parachute?!

As a Scout leader, no scout would be allowed to carry out anything !!! without risk assessments, people qualified running it, parents consent , group scout leaders and district commissioners all been given 7 days knowtice etc etc we can't even walk to the shop without submitting a risk assessment form

I have a lot of caving experience and I watched Grills or whatever the his name is....I found it riveting hoping he wouldn't get out ..would have felt sorry for the crew but stop picking up he scraps from a crap mans table ...aim a little higher ...Asda maybe ...

Jesus the amount of hate some of yous have for him is unreal people saying only trained people should be in caves ext he is trained he's a expert climber expert at ropes expert survivalist he was is the SAS for God sakes he knows what his limits are you could see in the programme he was edging to get out as fast as he could and if he had a helmet on do you think he would have got through the small gap all are just jealous of him saddos

I'm tired of writing this on forums he was never in the regular SAS he was with 21 SAS in London for about 6 months got what he wanted with no active service and has now made a fortune total chancer!