Ill-equipped people think they know it all so will not be in the audience to receive your written or broadcast messages? Could put up signs in the car parks but why should we have to? They would look a mess.

Brainless, irresponsible idiots putting rescuers lives at risk. Its about time they 'named and shamed' these morons! Its pepole like these that give everyone else a bad name.

I don't think it is realistic to believe that simply carrying a torch, map and compass will help much. Be honest, how many of us Grough readers can confidently say we would be able to navigate off Scafell in the dark? In clag? When you're tired? My palms are sweating just imagining it.

I wonder if the "message" is too complicated and casual visitors think it is intended for someone else: "We're only walking up the path to , what can possibly go wrong? We're not mountaineering!"

The simplest and best precaution in short daylight is "set off early". If we can put those three words in every shop and cafe in Kendal/Ambleside/etc. maybe something will stick?

Weather forecast is good - expect a busy weekend Richard!

Idiots !!! I met two groups recently in the very same area, one lot at our start near hard knot all soaked and lost trying to get to Langdale. wrong turning at Esk hause...no compass!

the second lot where we wild camping at great moss near dow crag. it was getting dark and two shadows asked us where they were? Eskdale I answered. where you going?
....wasdale head, they came S.E. off sca fell not N.W....no compass/map again!
I pointed them down the valley and wished them luck.

When will MRT be able to bill these idiots for their rescue? If they were well equipped but got into difficulties then fair enough (and the chances of them needing rescue is much lower), but going ill-equipped is asking for trouble and they should pay the price for it. Without MRT the price paid for their folly could be their lives!

I am speaking as an experienced fell-walker who lives up in the Lakes. It disturbs me to read of the steady flow of mountain rescues, many of which should not have been necessary. Then there are all the articles relating to the stupidity of people who go unprepared and giving advice to such people. The 3-peaks challenge stories make one cringe at the very least. The point I would like to make is, "Are the people in question actually seeing these articles, or are they only being read by people who already 'know it all'?" It seems to me they need a much wider audience. To put it bluntly, we need to target the 'ignorant visitors' who come from afar in their droves, without having had any prior warning of the dangers.

The average and occasional walker isn't subscribing to sites such as Grough or listening to Cumbrian radio and clearly not subscribing to common sense.
I believe aside from rescue teams charging an idiot tax that the National parks should consider precaution and gear check info boards in popular ascent based car parks and maybe the same info posted within guest houses, campsites, pubs etc.
........Actually, i prefer the idiot tax idea, a cracking funding solution.
Hats off to you lads.

Thanks for the comments so far - I like the 'set off earlier approach' plus target outside the lakes and grough.

perhaps another breakfast tv approach is needed before the weekend clocks go back

Kind regards and keep the suggestions coming

Thanks to Bob & grough for promoting the messages

Richard

May be difficult to implement as many people take different routes and have differing ability, but here's my thought. You could have a list of recommended cut off times for walkers based on time of year / sunset times. You could then have this displayed at the common starting points for the main routes. Add an equipment checklist at the bottom, including compass and torches...and the ability to use them!

Let's be honest, some people don't appreciate how volatile an environment a mountain can become in bad weather or darkness so we'll never eradicate rescues owing to incompetence. We can try to educate though!

Re Alison's suggestion about the audience - I have just been talking to BBC Breakfast TV and also to BBC North England Network Bureau - hopefully we might just get to spread the word - will also try twitter tonight and get people to retweet this article around the country - if twitter sorted out the north african issues perhaps it will work to encourage walkers to be properly equipped?

Cheers All,

Richard

I say leave them to find their own way off, people need to learn from their own mistakes. There seems to be a mentality in this country that its always someone else's fault or, in this case, someone else will sort out the problem I've created for myself. It doesn't matter how much you drill it into people there will always be idiots who think it doesn't apply to them.

I have full respect for the MRT's, I don't think I could keep my cool if I'd been dragged away from my dinner, out into the cold and rain to rescue some muppet who's lost because he didn't think he'd need a map or compass. When he could have easily just headed downhill until he came across a road or house, which in the lake district are everywhere! Rant over!

Looks like the mountain police are at it again!
People gain experience from making mistakes - this report stated that the woman had a knee injury.

Mountain rescue is a voluntary service, and if the team does not think that the call-out is genuine, they can make the decision not to go out. The teams that do respond see it as an opportunity to get on their high-horse and rant about it as a way of publicity to their team. Each and every one of the team members can make the decision if they want to attend a call-out, so what's all the fuss about?

If everyone was equipped and skilled, then lots of these minor call-out would be eliminated, and really it is these incidents that allow rescue teams to train, deploy new team members, try out new procedures and get to know each other in a non-serious environment, so that when a serious incident occurs, they are ready to deal with it.

Having once come down from Hole in the Wall to Patterdale, an easy path in pitch dark, I know a) never to do it again and b) how difficult even as easy path can be when you are risking ankle injuries and falls from cobbles and boulders. A simple head torch takes up so little space and weight, it is a no brainer really. Also spare batteries. Every team member should carry at least one.

Carrying no torch and being late off is a self fulfilling prophecy. It is amazing how dull late afternoon can be at this time of year and all waymarks disappear. Holes become rocks and vice versa. it really slows you down.

MR Police not really - just trying to do some awareness messages so that our MR team members don't get called out unecessarily and too frequently - since Sunday Wasdale MRT dealt with 6 callouts - 2 were genuine accidents and the others were all down to poor planning and no torches / map compass. The other teams have also been similarly busy.

I accept that when we are quiet there is no problem in going out but sometimes it becomes relentless and really does mess up home and work life - a little bit of friendly guidance never does any harm.

Anyway - lets see what Langdale Team Leader, Nick owen can do tomorrow as BBC breakfast are picking up on it and will put out sometning on Saturday morning before the clocks turn - gets the message to a wider audience we hope.

Cheers

Richard

Some advertising like:

Lack of a £15 head torch can cost us £1000
Lack of a £10 compass might cost use £500
Lack of a £6 map possibly costs us a nights sleep

Your £300 goretex jacket that doesn't carry a torch, compass or map doesn't guarantee you'll be seen by us mountain rescuers in the dark!

Er, rant.

Seriously. You could try (I know it costs money) producing car window adverts ( placed on volunteers rear windows in car parks) saying something like "4 O'clock and it's getting dark, carry a torch, map and compass, please"

Other then that, let the buggers grope around in the dark and pick them up in the morning. It only takes one or two stories to shock hundreds of people into action.

What happened to this idea?
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2010/05/26/mountain-council-looks-at-setting-up-safety-forum

I agree in getting messages out, but this needs to be done in a encouraging and educational way, not a 'telling off' approach which has been seen from some MRT teams in the past.

We need to accept that there has always been and will always be people who are uninformed, and those who simply ignore advice (just look at driving; there are laws against certain actions, but people still do stupid things).

At the end of the day the number of avoidable call-outs within MR is hardly national news, and only gives a very negative light on the mountaineering fraternity to the general public.

Most MR websites educate people in how to call for help, but give very little other information on effective planning or specific information on their mountain area.

Back to the original article on here, the woman called for help had a knee injury and that was being used as an excuse to dominate the headlines with 'more stupid people in the hills!'

And not just a torch but spare batteries for the torch !
The use of a head torch should also be emphasised as both hands can be needed in some places and holding a torch (which could also be dropped) is not a good idea.

Any news about A defector's mystical disappearance?